Using Creativity in Media to Build Communities and the Importance of BLM with Dr. Renee

Transcript

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[00:01:18]  Dr. Taylor Brana: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Happy Doc. I’m super excited, always excited to record an episode. We’re going to get right into this one with Dr. Renee Matthews. She has a show called the ask Dr. Renee show, and I’m very excited to record, but also at the same time, we’re in a climate right now, which is very difficult politically, racially, and there’s so much to kind of parse out the journey of being a physician, parse out all of this process that we’re all going through as a society. And so we’re going to get to all of that and more with Dr. Renee. 

[00:01:55] So, Dr. Renee, can you introduce yourself? 

[00:01:58] Dr. Renee: Hi, I’m Dr. Renee. I am obviously a medical doctor, but I don’t practice, I talk about health and media. So TV, radio print, and online media. And then I turned around and I started doing public relations for other physicians so that they can get in the media as well. And as you mentioned, I do have the Ask Dr. Renee Show, which is an online show and the mantra of the show is just, I want to motivate and inspire people to live the life they deserve. That’s my mantra: live like you deserve; that’s my hashtag. I think everyone should do it. And The Happy Doc sounds like exactly what I am trying to help all my clients to be. 

[00:02:32] Dr. Taylor Brana: A hundred percent. I mean, your mission, you know, absolutely aligned.

[00:02:36] You know, I definitely believe that every human has a potential. And we all deserve to have access to achieve that potential. And, you know, we’re, we’re definitely going to go down that train of thought in a second, for sure. But I am, I’m really curious, you know, a lot of physicians feel like there’s this really linear path to going through the process. And for you, you went down the media path. So I’m really kind of interested about what took you towards that direction. What was that story? 

[00:03:11] Dr. Renee: So, really it started when I was a child, I watched Good Morning America. The medical correspondent at the time was Dr. Nancy Snyderman, who many people probably remember, most recently, she was on the today show.

[00:03:23] She had broken her quarantine during Ebola or something, and basically lost her job, and I have not seen her in the media since. But that’s who I saw and I just wanted to be her. I wanted to be the doctor on Good Morning America. And, you know, my mom, you know, as I was growing up, obviously, you know, there’s no book that’s written or class to take to do that. All there is, is to become a doctor. And so my mom’s like, well, you should just focus on practicing because we honestly didn’t know anyone that did that personally. So, that was my focus. My fallback was I was going to do OB/GYN and right out of medical school, before I could even get a residency, I actually got a radio show on satellite radio. And I was like, well, if I could do this, then clearly if I work hard enough, I probably could get where I’m trying to go. 

[00:04:16] So fast forward to 2020. Now, I’m in 45,000 doctor’s offices across the country on the waiting room TVs, I’m on the tablets that they hand you while you’re waiting in the exam room.

[00:04:27] My show is called Out of Office with Dr. Renee, and I sit down with another physician and we talk about their specialty. They’re 2-3 minute episodes just to give the patients a little information that will help them with their visit, hopefully. So, I’m not on Good Morning America yet, but I never did see that I would be doing what I’m doing. So now I’ve been on different radio shows. I’ve been on Sway In The Morning. I’ve been in a lot of national publications, Essence magazine, Ebony magazine, and I’ve written for a lot of huge online publications. 

[00:04:57] Dr. Taylor Brana: I love that. And you know, again, it’s just, I think one of the things I’d love to talk about in this podcast is that there’s such a linear thinking in terms of where your career goes. Everyone says there’s only a few ways to do it. And part of that fulfillment, part of that happiness is that creativity to think in different ways to take your career and stretch in different opportunities. And so I’m really excited to hear that from you. If someone was interested in starting their media journey – how did you go? Again, cause I’m really interested in this. How did you go from finishing medical school and then hopping over to a radio show? Cause, in my head I’m like, that’s nuts. Obviously, it’s a little different times. That’s crazy. How did you get there? 

[00:05:46] Dr. Renee: So, first of all, I started my entertainment company in 2005. So, this was  2006-ish, maybe seven, something like that. Actually, maybe it was like 2007. The entertainment company, I just, I knew that I always wanted to own an entertainment company. I wanted to throw concerts. I liked being backstage at concerts. I went to Michigan State University and my sister and I were part of the concert promoting group. And so we liked it and I said, well, I’m going to practice medicine. You become an engineer. And once I get my practice going, we’ll have this business and this is what we’ll do. 

[00:06:22] And so, I ended up going to a conference here in Chicago, The National Association of Black Female Executives in Music & Entertainment (NABFEME). And I was like, you know what? This looks like something I should go to. It’s here in Chicago, I live in Chicago. So I went and sure enough, I made a lot of great contacts, and that’s where I met my first client, and we started the entertainment company. So basically for me, it started with that. And then I just translated it all into medicine.

[00:06:49] So I started out with rappers, singers, actresses. I had a model that was a client at the time. I started out with that, and because I knew how to navigate that, I just started navigating it for myself and then for other physicians. But anybody was interested. I tell everyone. And actually, I think you saw the leveraging growth summit, everyone research, research research.

[00:07:12] So if you want to be on a TV show, you need to clearly write that in the names of the people that produce the show, and you need to look them up and contact them. If you want to be in a magazine, you need to see who wrote the article and try to reach them. You need to read who’s the editor of that section of the article, editor the section of that paper, whatever it is.

[00:07:29] So, it’s really research. And then, just pitching yourself to say, this is what I want to talk about. And I think you, your, your readers, listeners, viewers would be interested, that’s it.

[00:07:40] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. I mean, you make it, you make it sound simple, but I think part of it, like, you know, I’m hearing your story is you, you have that dream, right. You had that vision. And so it’s sort of like, there’s some like pull there, like natural, pull to, to mix that entertainment and medicine. 

[00:07:55] I heard this, this one that like, it’s like a pseudo-statistic, it’s not real, but like someone said, entrepreneurship is always five years ahead, at least, ahead of medicine, right? So, I feel like you almost got into the scene in that realm. So then when you went to medicine, you’re like, Oh, I can just apply this to medicine. And I definitely see that, right. I feel like a lot of creative people, artists, entrepreneurs, people that are really go getters, they’re doing stuff that’s super avant garde, but in medicine it’s super conservative and everyone’s concerned. and for some really good reason, right? But I just love, I love that you mixed it up and you made it your own, that’s awesome. 

[00:08:38] Dr. Renee: Yeah. I often say like, what happened was my business coach was the one that’s like, you should really work with doctors. I was like, really? And she’s like, yeah, because you’re unique that you know how to do that. and you know how to navigate that world. Most physicians have no idea how to get themselves on TV, radio, whatever. And I said, oh, okay. And so that’s when I started working with doctors. 

[00:09:02] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. And honestly, it’s a, it’s a fantastic demographic because these are some of the most knowledgeable, kind hearted, hard working people. I mean, like you, you know, how it was when you’re in training, you work with geniuses every day and it’s – I often think about it like, there’s all these hidden geniuses in the world that can do so many big things. And then they’re just kind of in their practice. 

[00:09:30] Dr. Renee: I mean, people will, you know, people will come find you and tell you, and, you know, Bishop T.D. Jakes said, “Don’t put a period where God put a comma.”

[00:09:37] So, you know, we were like, but you’re a doctor. Why are you the manager of a rapper? Because I am. This is what I do. And, you know, and they were like, but you do this and you do that. And I said, exactly. And, you know, especially in the times that we’re in now, people are now realizing, you have multiple streams of income, including doctors, especially with what we’ve just gone through. You saw how many physicians lost jobs, lost pay, you know, and obviously that [income] has to be made up somewhere.

[00:10:10] And you know, and I know a lot of single doctors that are going through this and I’m like, Oh my God, because they’re single. It’s not like who’s the other income? There is no other income. It’s them and their mortgages and their, you know, car notes, everything still has to be paid, even though the hospital has decided to cut their pay tremendously. So, it’s really important in this day and age that you have multiple streams of income, whether they be passive or something you do actually physically have to do, you need to be, you know, you need to expand your reach and do some more things. I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of doctors are coming out with really amazing products.

[00:10:47] Dr. Taylor Brana: Absolutely. And it’s funny, you’re talking about this, cause I literally just wrote this like stream of consciousness about making money and products and those types of things. So, a lot of people aren’t well versed in that. And I think it’s definitely an important topic in terms of happiness. Just cause we’re down this kind of rabbit hole here. 

[00:11:06] What are some things, you know, you mentioned entertainment, all that stuff, but what can physicians do to create these different streams? Like what strategies have you seen that certain people take? 

[00:11:17] Dr. Renee: I’ve seen a lot of physicians doing coaching. Even if it’s health coaching, a lot of them, I had a client that went and she got licensed or certified to become a life coach.

[00:11:28] So, because honestly, her commute was like two hours each way. She had a family, and, you know, it was just, it was brutal. And plus, she didn’t feel valued at the clinic. So, she became a life coach and she’s, and then there’s authors. You can write books, because obviously, like you said, we have a lot of information that people want. Write books, podcasting, like creating products and those products could be courses.

[00:11:59] You could be teaching people how to handle anxiety. Are you a psychiatrist? You’d be the perfect person to teach people how to handle anxiety. It’s an  online course, you put it on your website, it’s self-taught, you give them access to send you emails or something and you give – hey, I mean, all sorts of ways to make income.

[00:12:19] And my whole thing is I want you to trade dollars for hours. I do not want you to spend more time away from your family. I want you to spend more time with your family, but make more money. 

[00:12:31] Dr. Taylor Brana: One hundred percent. And, when I was doing that whole stream of consciousness yesterday, you know, there’s things that are time dependent, you’re trading time for money, right? And then there’s things that are time independent, right? So, writing a book for example is a great thing. Yes, you’re putting in that hundred thousand whatever amount of hours it’s going to take to write it and edit it and all those things. But once he got the physical or digital book, you’re not doing anything else. 

[00:13:00] Dr. Renee: Exactly. Except for collecting your money 

[00:13:01] Dr. Taylor Brana: Except for collecting money, right. So you’re getting the dividends off of that. So for example, if you have this digital copy, it’s completely free essentially, but then you sell a thousand and let’s say it’s 10 bucks, that’s $10,000 that came out of nothing. But not many people think like this and, and you know, the reason I’m talking about it with you right now too, is just because if you’re not aware, your brain’s not even gonna think about it. And if your brain doesn’t think about it, you’re not even going to have the possibility of even imagining what that could look like, you know? 

[00:13:35] Dr. Renee: I think also with doctors, most of us are Type A personalities. So, we need to know all of the answers. When you do stuff like this, you can’t know all the answers. You just have to have many questions and keep going and keep going. Even if you don’t know what it’s going to look like at the end, cause who’s going to buy the book. Don’t worry about that today. Let’s try and think of what we are going to write the book about? 

[00:13:57] Well, I need a publisher. Well really, you don’t have to have a publisher, you know, and people just don’t.. You really have to think outside the box, or you need to hire a coach to help you to think outside the box. And also, don’t have paralysis analysis. Please do not sit there and over analyze it so much that you never move.

[00:14:15] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. A hundred percent. I heard one person talk about entrepreneurship. It’s like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, or maybe you’re with, with a parachute. And you’re like, scrambling to figure out what to do. And you’re like, ah!! and you’re like falling down and you’re facing all these challenges. And at the same time, you’re figuring it out as you go. And then hopefully, you’re able to pull on the, whatever you need to pull on. And the parachute goes. But, that’s the journey you have to take.

[00:14:42] Dr. Renee: I love it. I agree. That’s the way it is. I love it. There’s days that I’m mad as hell, but you know, there’s more days than I’m very happy because I go to bed when I want to. I wake up when I want to. If a family member gets sick and needs me. I can travel. I can work from wherever I have my computer and my phone and my tablet.

[00:15:01]And so I can travel.  I see my family now more than ever. If I had a day job. One, obviously you only have so much vacation time now I can just go and, you know, and so I’m connecting better with my people because I see them regularly. And so, yeah, it’s wonderful. I love it. It’s not for everyone, I’ve always said, but for those that it is for, it can be great.

[00:15:28] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. I’m a big fan of time freedom and the ability to, you know, choose. And again, it’s not for everyone. Some people want it all really structured all the time. And I definitely see the value in that, but having that opportunity to choose instead of having everything forced on you is, is, is definitely something that a lot of people are looking for.

[00:15:49]You mentioned all these different types of projects that people can do. What are the sort of projects that you’re taking on right now, you’re excited about, that you’re developing?

[00:15:57] Dr. Renee: So, years ago I did voiceover lessons. I did do my demos and I just never got any gigs. So recently I actually applied to one, and it is actually it’s an on camera. It’s not even just the voiceover, it’s an on camera gig. And, so it looks like that’s going to pan out. So, I’m very excited about that. I work with BlackDoctor.org, I’m a host for them. So, they do a lot of Facebook Lives. Like I can’t even count how many they do, but they do a whole lot Facebook Lives. And so I host several of them every month for them. So I book them, basically produce them, everything. Then, what else do we have? I have a live streaming course that is available on my website, that I taught live and so it was recorded and now it’s on my site, and I update it. And I have a private group on Facebook that my students can go in and, you know, we can share videos or whatever we want, they can ask me questions, whatever. Oh, my YouTube channel! I am this close to getting paid by YouTube and I’m very excited about that. We’re working very hard at that. I had made the decision in January that I was going to do it this year anyway, but then the pandemic happened. And so now that’s the Ask Dr. Renee Show was a weekly show, but now that we’re home, I’ve been shooting more shows. I have two huge shows next week, I have, I’m West Indian, so I have a soca artist, the music of my generation, basically it is an offshoot of Calypso if you’re familiar with Calypso. So Mr. Killa is going to be on my show on Tuesday. He’s a Grenadian soca artist. And then on Thursday, I have chef Carla hall. They used to host The Chew. 

[00:17:33] Dr. Taylor Brana: Wow. I love how diverse you are. You know, you’re just doing so many things. I like the fact that you’re getting all these different influences, you know, medicine, art, the voice stuff. Like it’s just, it’s, it’s great. I love it. That’s creativity for you, right?

[00:17:50] Dr. Renee: Now, I was supposed to have a book written by last month. It didn’t happen, but I’m not going to bang myself up about it. I really, it’s a book about my life. I have severe asthma, allergies and food allergies. And so last month, in case you didn’t know, was allergy awareness month. And so yeah, May is allergy awareness month, asthma and allergy awareness month. And so that was the goal, we were going to get the book out so that in May, I can do a press run. Well, we weren’t leaving our houses anyway. So I just got really stagnant and I just did not.

[00:18:24] Dr. Taylor Brana: Hey, you know, it is what it is. 

[00:18:26] Dr. Renee: So maybe next May! 

[00:18:28] Dr. Taylor Brana: Absolutely. It’s all a process. I mean, I think the big thing I’ve learned through the journey myself is forgiveness, forgiveness times a thousand. Because, you know, you wish you wish you could have unlimited energy. You wish you could do all the projects you wish you could go out there and have 10 Ted Talks and whatever, but you know, we’re humans.

[00:18:48] Dr. Renee: And speaking about the other thing that I said in January, I was going to do more of it. So then when we got stuck at home, I’m like, Oh Lord. But I have actually spoken at five conferences thus far. Another one is tomorrow. And then I have another one on June 20th. 

[00:19:03] Dr. Taylor Brana: Wow. Congratulations! That’s amazing. 

[00:19:06] Dr. Renee: All from the comfort of my house.

[00:19:10] I mean, look, you’re living proof that there’s just diverse options. And the one thing I was going to say too is again, make lemons out of lemonade. We can’t control the pandemic is here. You know, COVID happened. But how are we taking personal responsibility to create opportunities for ourselves? Right. And I know, you know this a hundred percent, but how are you making those, you know, how are you making lemonade out of the lemons right now that you’re handed.

[00:19:38] Dr. Renee: I mean, I just, I think I just stayed really engaged with my community and I sat  – as soon as I realized we’re stuck at home. And I figured out quickly that video, while I already knew video was the thing anyway, I knew that people were going to be watching more things because they couldn’t go anywhere.

[00:19:54] You know, what choices do you have? Zoom meeting, and then you can only watch so much on the television, you’re going to run out. And so, you know, YouTube has been, you know, the numbers have been ridiculous. I started out with 400 views a month in January, and in April, I think I had 39,000. 

[00:20:13] Dr. Taylor Brana: Wow. 

[00:20:15] Dr. Renee: So you’re just right. So I was like, no, if I give them content, they’ll watch it.And sure enough, that’s what happened. I was like, okay, let me just keep going. And same thing, BlackDoctor.org, they always did Facebook Lives, but we just went on steroids with them because once again, people learn at home, they have 2.1 million likes on their Facebook page. Those people are sitting there waiting for us to go live.

[00:20:40] And so, I get, you  know, easily. 15,000 views on a video I do there, you know, right out the gate. And then, you know, it gets replayed how many times who knows right now I knew that video was going to be really important to me because I do video. I knew that that was what I could do. I came out of this with more than what I came in with because of what, because I am a publicist and also an influencer, blogger and stuff – pitching is what I do. I pitch my clients. Now, I have developed myself in such a space that usually people come to me and it’s great. I don’t have to pitch myself, but now that I have these new, huge numbers with video and YouTube, I said, okay, well now there’s some other places that I want to, you know, other brands I want to work with. I can now pitch them huge numbers. Plus, what I already had with my social media following, and see what money we can make that way, you know.

[00:21:38] Dr. Taylor Brana: And you bring up a great point about, and this is something I can’t, it’s hard for me to explain to people, which is like the, the, I call it the positive snowball effect of, if you’re constantly putting yourself out there and you’re doing things that are aligned with your heart and what you’d like to do in the world, and you keep doing that, it’s like, Oh, I met this person three months ago and then they ran them, randomly hit you up and they start talking to you about something. And you’re like, oh, I should go do that. And then you go to this event, and then you meet 10 other people that are doing something. And then those people – you know, it’s just a constant, you just don’t understand this like invisible 

[00:22:15] Dr. Renee: right. 

[00:22:16] Dr. Taylor Brana: ladder or something, that’s just like, do more, do more. And it’s, it’s, it’s hard to explain, but when you live it, you, you understand it from a, like a, just an experiential sort of way. And, and it’s, it’s great to see that one thing you mentioned that I’m interested in, more so selfishly, but anyone listening to you can also get something out of it if you mentioned Live. Live videos. Live content. How do you find that- is Live more effective? Like why, why Live as opposed to, you know, some other mediums.

[00:22:50] Dr. Renee: So, you know, the algorithms, algorithms change all the time on our friend Facebook and other platforms, but Facebook, you know, back  in the day, if you had a picture on your posts, oh, it was golden. And then it was, if he had a video in your post, that was uploaded to Facebook, not using a third party? Golden. Well then if you went live on Facebook, Oh my God. They would just, you know, show everybody your stuff. So that is why Live. 

[00:23:22] Now I’ve heard the algorithm is changing a bit and so posting recorded videos might actually help you out. But, I will tell you this little secret. People Pay me a lot of money for this! ‘Watch Party’ feature on Facebook is better than sharing videos, but you can only do watch parties on videos that were live.

[00:23:46] Dr. Taylor Brana: Gotcha. 

[00:23:47] Dr. Renee: So if you do a watch party, you will probably see an increase in views in your live video, then if you just do a share. 

[00:23:55] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. Okay. I mean, that’s, that’s great.  

[00:23:59] Dr. Renee:  I’ll tell you, I just found out like two weeks ago that YouTube live, live streaming on YouTube. They give more eyeballs to that too, because I was actually, I started out doing it, then I mean, I started this recent time in January. Well, this year, I started and then I stopped because I’m watching my numbers and I could upload a video and do better than I was getting the live. But, I watched this video a few weeks ago. It was like, how do you get that last a thousand hours you need or whatever? And I said, okay. And that’s what they said. And so I was like, okay, I’m still not quite sold on this, but we’re still going live. So. 

[00:24:36] Dr. Taylor Brana: I mean, I mean, look again, we only have so many hours. It’s a kind of a necessary evil, but you have to understand what is going to let you attract, you know, the biggest audience and allow people to consume. And again, I’m a big believer. If you’re putting out positive content, good information, you’re being honest and authentic about it. You know, I’m seeing that – you and I are on the same team here. So, it’s like, if you’re putting out legitimate, effective information that is going to impact people positively, why, why not? Why not attract and put out what you, you know, to these bigger audiences. So, that’s, that’s super helpful. I, I will, I will pay you with my gratitude. Thank you. 

[00:25:20] Dr. Taylor Brana: So let’s, let’s get to the meat of the discussion. It’s just so important right now. Obviously, what happened to George Floyd was terrible. It’s incited an incredible amount of passion in society, along, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement. It’s definitely forced me as a white male to intrinsically look inside and understand the biases in my life. And, and I just had a conversation – not to go into details – with a patient. And he was telling me about all of these rules. You need to know when a cop approaches the vehicle. And so again, he talks about, I was like, I just didn’t even know. It just, it just, not in my ethos, it’s not in my consciousness. So let’s, let’s talk about it. Not just as just a black physician, but what is it like right now in black culture? What is it like right now? How has it been? Just, just tell me your thoughts about everything. 

[00:26:22] Dr. Renee: So, I mean, I understand the protests. That makes perfect sense to me. I can’t believe it, but I also think it’s because of the pandemic, because we are all sitting at home and nobody was at a movie. They weren’t at the, you know, they weren’t at a ball game at work, you know, a concert, everyone was sitting here and I think that’s why Now is happening. Because everyone saw. And then the video, I have not watched the video, I’ve seen pictures, but I’ve never watched the video, but because visuals really mean something. And I know there’ve been a lot of cops that have killed people, but never before, I don’t think, have we seen the cops and the victim. We saw them in the same frame.

[00:27:03] And so usually – we saw what he looked like after the fact or before, but we never saw because it was a bodycam maybe, or, you know what I mean? But this time we got that whole visual. And I think that is why it is alarming for the whole country. A lot of, black people are creating databases so we know exactly what companies are for us and what companies do not want our money.

[00:27:29] You can do any market research and see black people spend a whole lot of money in this country. Without it, the country would really suffer. Yeah. And so, that is why it’s so important for us to speak with our dollars, because it will affect change, which I honestly believe that’s the other reason why things have happened the way they have Rodeo Drive was taken out. Come on now. You know what I mean? The Magnificent Mile here in Chicago was hit hard. So I think that money, you know, affects change. It was horrible that George Floyd died in the same week that Breonna Taylor, I think that was the same week in Louisville, Kentucky, you know? Um, and then the Ahmaud Arbery, I think they actually went to trial recently.

[00:28:11] So all of it was like, you know, just crashing down and there’s so many more here in Chicago. We have Laquan McDonald who was shot senselessly by the police. And it was like, he “accidentally” shot him 16 times. I’m like, okay. 

[00:28:24] Dr. Taylor Brana: Wow. 

[00:28:25] Dr. Renee: So that’s, I think now, like I said, our thing now is really, we need to, unfortunately a lot of us are having these conversations.

[00:28:34] I don’t have a problem. There are a lot of us that are tired, which is rightfully so. And then, you know, a lot of them say, should I be the one educating my white friends? Well, no, that’s not your job. It’s not your job. And I, and there’s a lot of reading lists that have been handed out to, you know, if you don’t want to talk about it, then tell them to go read this or go look at this or something.

[00:28:55] You know, I just posted the video on my YouTube channel is an old episode of Oprah from the 1992 Rodney King riots. And, she had Jane Elliott who I think is the most amazing woman on this planet. She is 87. I’m like, please Lord, let her stay around for another hundred years. But Jane Elliott is a white woman who understands the black experience.

[00:29:14] And she does this wonderful experiment, Blue eyed, Brown eyed experiment to help white people to understand what we go through on a daily basis every day of our lives all day and their uncomfortability for one or two hours really is enlightening to them, cause they are so mad. And you know, if you watch the video, you’ll see, some lady said, I just don’t understand, you know, we did tolerate this.

[00:29:37] And so Jane said, excuse me, to the black people. And she said to them now, how many of you want to be tolerated or do you actually want to be celebrated and appreciated and valued? Exactly. I don’t really care to be tolerated. I just want to be valued for what I have to bring to the table. 

[00:29:54] And then you have companies that claim diversity because they have two black people that work there, but the two black people are never listened to. So then you’re not being inclusive, they’re just sitting at the table, taking up space. So I think that this has really shone a light, like you said, on you, on people. It’s really putting a mirror in front of them to think about what we are doing?

[00:30:15] My sister is a chef and Bon Appétit is one of her apps that she watches on her Roku all the time. And apparently, they weren’t paying any black people in the video. And, they also admitted to the fact that black people would submit articles and they would put someone else’s name to them and not pay them.

[00:30:34] So then, then their Editor-in-chief colored himself in brown face and said he was Puerto Rican. So, he lost his job. And, but they literally came out and stayed at all these things online on Instagram. He was telling me about these posts. So a lot of companies I think are realizing, Hey, this isn’t going to fly anymore. And figuring out we’ve got to change something here, you know, cause people are not sitting down. Sephora is now going to give more shelf space to black owned businesses, there are a lot of black makeup lines that they could have taken in, but they didn’t. And it’s not that I can’t go into Sephora and buy makeup, there’s not makeup that is made by people that are like me. There’s makeup, you know, like MAC [Cosmetics] is in Sephora, but MAC is not black owned. So, Sephora is giving a percentage of their shelf space. I mean, a lot of places are starting to see, I don’t know if you know, Netflix has a new channel now, Black Lives Matter. I mean, it’s really great because Black History Month is in February – it’s the shortest month of the year. It is so crazy to me.

[00:31:39] Dr. Taylor Brana: I never thought about it like that, yeah.

[00:31:42] Dr. Renee: Obviously, I live black history every day, all day, but that was the only time when I was in school that we ever talked about it, too. That was weird to me. And I’m like, I hope that that’ll change for the schools too. But I think that there’s some of us like me, I’m Positive Patty, all my friends say. So, I think that change is going to happen very soon. Other people are like, “I still don’t think it will be in my lifetime,” and I’m like, okay. They’re being forced to do something now. 

[00:32:12] Dr. Taylor Brana: Exactly. I almost think  the narrative is so positive for Black Lives matter, that even if you were partially racist or you don’t believe that black people deserve equal rights and all those things, it looks so bad that you have to do something, even if secretly you’re not changing your bias and all that stuff.

[00:32:32] So. I mean, it’s terrible to say it like that, but honestly, the narrative is there. And then I think you just gotta, like, we need to really, as a, as a group, use that to, to actually start to equalize as much as possible, you know, you can’t, you can’t really take life and make it an equal playing board. There’s always going to be imbalances. But to try to, like, you’re talking about with Sephora, get more, you know, black makeup in the, you know, and to kind of those, those individuals that are creating those products to highlight them, is obviously very important. The one thing that was coming into my mind as you’re speaking a lot is, from my psychological perspective is the idea of the microaggression, and the microtraumas. You know, we in psychiatry and psychology, we talk about PTSD and we talk about the idea of like a really bad event. And that event changes your life. But something that’s harder to explain – you’re talking about that experiment – is this idea of a trauma that is kind of constant. And a reality that’s constant. And so the people in it don’t realize that it’s even there. 

[00:33:46] Dr. Renee: This is why we’ve said, and it, unfortunately in the black community, mental health is, I think, a huge issue it’s never spoken about. And you know, you’re crazy if you’re going to a psychiatrist and no one wants to be labeled crazy. So therefore they don’t go, but you need help. But that is something that we have said that most, every black person should probably go and sit down and talk to someone because, whether you realize it or not, you have had all these things happen to you, but it’s so second nature that you don’t think about it.

[00:34:20] And so, and there was one of the things that Jane [Elliott] even mentioned about, she was like, you know, How many of you would like to take your skin off, but there’s no place for you to go? Every place in this country, you are going to encounter racism. And I was like, exactly. They said, you know, whether it be a worker, you know, walking outside your house, it’s somewhere.

[00:34:40] So if you’ve experienced that your whole life, I think you do sort of become numb to it and you don’t react as crazy. Like I’ve heard that people have been, you know, bombing these zoom meetings. Thankfully, it’s not happened to any that I’ve had. And I’ve heard that they’re, you know, coming in, saying the n-word and blah, blah, blah.

[00:34:56] Honestly, if someone did mine, I don’t think I would freak out. I’ve been called it so many times. I would just be like, Oh my God, we need to either end this or get rid of them. But I wouldn’t freak out. I had a friend the other day though. She was shaking for two hours because her – but, like I said, when you, I grew up with all white people, my school, it was me. I have a younger sister. We might’ve been two of the, less than 1% in most of our schools, there were black people in my junior high and five in my graduating class, in high school. So, I am accustomed to being around them. I am totally accustomed to people calling me out of my name. Unfortunately, the first time I remember I was five, I will never forget it. And I thought it was a term of endearment because, you know, I was a happy go lucky child. I skipped through the halls and smiled all the time. And so I came home so excited to tell my mom that this blonde hair, blue eye boy called me a nigger. My mother was like, WHAT?! This wasn’t the reaction that I thought she should have. And she’s like, I have to go to the school and I’m thinking, for what?

[00:36:07] Dr. Taylor Brana: Wow. It’s.. it’s Crazy. The one thing that I was thinking about, you know, earlier talking about kind of this systemic racism and all of these issues that come on is, when it comes to being successful in life, you have to have the belief that you can achieve it. And I think about that, you know, again, on the systemic level, if you’re constantly being told you’re less than, your mind is programmed to never believe you’re really good enough. And so I, again, there’s just so much –

[00:36:45] Dr. Renee: That’s why we have the problems we have. We have the prison system filled with black people. You know, everything just trickles down to that. I tell people all the time, not everyone is as strong as I am. I have a lot of people tell me I couldn’t become a doctor. I had a lot of people tell me that I wasn’t gonna be able to do what I wanted to do. I was going to just have to be okay with going to the office every day and seeing patients. But, because my parents raised me to believe that I really could do what I wanted to do, I’ve been able to do what I wanted to do. With other people, if you tell them that enough, you just killed somebody’s dream and they’re not going to, you know, become their full potential. 

[00:37:24] Dr. Taylor Brana: Right. Right. And you said it right there, it sounds like you had that kind of upbringing at home and the positive voices that could tell you, you could achieve, right. If you live in a broken home, if you live in a neighborhood that’s really rough. If you’re around a lot of violence, if you’re around a lot of people that are putting you down, calling you the n-word, you know, making you feel like total crap, the programmed words in your mind are, “I’m not good enough. I’ll never achieve.” And, as you and I know in the entrepreneurial world and the business world, there’s so much about affirmations. There’s so much about a positive mindset, positive attitude, growth mindset, and it just, it makes me feel terrible to imagine all of that wasted potential. 

[00:38:09] To get back to what we talked about earlier about that wasted potential – there’s so many talented artists, musicians, physicians, scientists, you know, motivational, like, you know, the whole gambit, right, who are black and how much more of that culture could have been, you know, even more influential it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a real shame, but we’re growing. And so I think that’s.

[00:38:36] Dr. Renee: And I said, the conversations have started. And I, like I said, I have a lot of friends that are tired because they’re the one, you know, they’re that one mom or they’re that one friend for a lot of people. And so a lot of people have inundated them with text messages and phone calls and stuff, and it’s too much for them.

[00:38:54] And I get that. But for me, I guess, cause I grew up this way and I was always explaining things to everybody because one, my dad is from the islands, and then my mom is from the US, so on one hand, my dad is, he’s a foreigner, we’re first generation on his side of the family. So, I had to explain my dad because things were not, he didn’t do things the same and didn’t, he didn’t sound like everybody else.

[00:39:17] And so I’m used to teaching and talking to people about it. But, other people are not, and they’re like, I don’t care to do this. So I said, but at least the conversation is there and people are listening. I was, I was speaking to somebody and they called us colored and I’m like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, you can’t do that.

[00:39:33] And so, you know, and you explain and they’re like, okay. And so then they won’t do it again. He’s not – they know, but they didn’t know. And if you don’t know, you don’t know. And so now they know, don’t do that. Somebody else said someone called them negros. No, we don’t call them that either, like different, but you know, if you don’t know, you don’t know.

[00:39:53] I prefer Black to African American because, I remember when – I want to, I’m not gonna say who it was, but I’m pretty sure I think I knew it was – but all of a sudden announcement was made that we were going to be African American. That was in my lifetime and my mother and I looked at each other and I was like, huh. And she goes, you don’t have to. And so I am a black woman and I say Black, I don’t say African American.

[00:40:17] Dr. Taylor Brana: And not everybody is African American, right? 

[00:40:18] Dr. Renee: I was gonna say, my dad. God love him. He will tell you he’s not African American. He’s like, no. Now the other thing is, in med school, we were talking about keloids and sickle cell, two things common in black people.

[00:40:36] Well, one student, who’s not black, raises his hand and tried to correct the teacher! Now mind you, we’re sitting there. I’m sitting there. There was like, three other black students – we’re all sitting there. None of us said anything. So why are you saying anything? So he goes to correct the teacher and say, African-American the teacher goes no, actually black people, black people that live anywhere. I have a high susceptibility to having sickle cell trait, and having keloids. I’m like, we’re sitting right here, why wouldn’t we have said something?

[00:41:08] Dr. Taylor Brana: No, yeah. That’s, I mean, that’s a ridiculous story, but it’s, it’s true. I mean, I think, I think the point you’re making, like the fact that people are starting to open up to be, to actually listen and that, that’s such a good, you know, I think a lot of people acted like they listened and then they would start to make statements.

[00:41:27] And I think the, the actual patience – like, oh crap. I am saying things that maybe, you know, that community would not appreciate. Maybe there’s a different way I could say things that makes everyone feel mutually respected. Like, you know, trying to sort of wrap your brain around that.

[00:41:44] I think people are really doing that. So, I’m very hopeful. So, we’ll see. You know, we could go on and on about this. This is like a, this is – this is not a 10 minute conversation. This is a, this is an ongoing developing conversation. Well, beyond us, obviously. Are there any thoughts that you, you know, in terms of this topic, is there anything that you’d want to share with, you know, not just physicians, but just people in general?

[00:42:13] Dr. Renee: Please understand Black Lives Matter is Black Lives Matter because all lives can’t matter, until black lives matter. And so that’s why we say black lives matter. I am not saying, especially as physicians, we’re not saying we’re not going to treat anybody but black people. That’s not what we’re saying.

[00:42:28] We’re saying that black lives need to matter so that everyone does matter because you’re eliminating an entire population of people. And you know, other countries, we need to pay attention because other countries are not racist like the US. When I travel overseas, I don’t see, or nor do I have the troubles that I have here.

[00:42:51] And so that’s the other thing is that I tell people that this is a problem for Black people that are in the United States. Not saying that there isn’t racism anywhere else, but here it is just, I swear, the whole country was built on it, and it’s just ingrained in this country and it’s, it’s unfortunate and that’s why things need to change.

[00:43:11] That’s why change has to happen. And so people who want to keep saying all lives matter… understand why we’re saying black lives matter and what it means, and that we’re not being racist or anything. We’re just saying that we’re tired of our lives not being worth anything. And, you know, second class citizens, you know, they just had voting the other day in Georgia and it was very skewed on purpose.

[00:43:35] Again, this is not the first time, you know? And so they gave all this difficulty to the black neighborhoods for their voting. All of that is unfair. And if you want to argue that the constitution, yes, the constitution is great for white people, but the constitution kind of left us out. And so that’s why that’s why people are so passionate. And so, I think they’re just sick and tired of being sick and tired, and people are listening. So that’s what, and I hate to tell people, but you know, the moment the Montgomery Bus Boycott, they said it was 380 something days. 

[00:44:07] Dr. Taylor Brana: Wow. 

[00:44:08] Dr. Renee: So can you imagine these people were not taking the bus to work all that time? They cooperatively got together and collaborated and, you know, got themselves rides and walked, but 380 something days. And I always say that to say, this isn’t going to go away next month or next week. It’s just not going to go away like that. This is going to be until change happens, people are going to keep having this conversation.

[00:44:34] Dr. Taylor Brana: A hundred percent. And I think the underlying issue psychologically is just essentially that we’re all humans, humans are human and the color of your skin, it affects how you’re perceived, but we all have – whatever you want to call it – a soul, whatever your belief system is, we all have something and that’s important. And if you can look at someone and realize that connection of a person who has different characteristics, then we can get somewhere. But if you just look at them and you create a screen of judgment and all of those things, as you know, again, I mean, I’m preaching to the choir here, but, you know, then we have issues.

[00:45:14] Dr. Taylor Brana: The other thing you mentioned too, the constitution. I watched this documentary about the 13th amendment 

[00:45:20] Dr. Renee:  Oh yes, that was very good. 

[00:45:23] Dr. Taylor Brana: on Netflix. And again, like we have so many resources now of education. I again, I’m not ingrained in the culture. I have a lot of learning about black history. And so I watched, I watched that documentary about how people, you know, slavery was a thing before, but people are still kind of enslaved and black people, especially in the prison system.

[00:45:44] And I had, I’d watched the stuff, like, I can’t believe this is actively happening and I’m like, wait a second. And then, you know, so then I’m realizing how much cognitive bias I have, because I don’t know the history of a culture. And, so, you know, I’m, I’m talking and bringing them about this stuff up so anyone listening, you know, takes a second to be like, wait, do I really know the history of Black History in America? Wait, maybe I don’t. And then you  watch it and you’re like, crap. I’d be pissed too! 

[00:46:09] Dr. Renee: Because the thing is, we didn’t come here willingly. We didn’t come here freely. We were brought here and I’ve seen so many people because, I swear it’s because of ‘the occupant’ – that’s what I call the man in the White House. So, I think it’s because of the occupant, people just feel that they can say and do whatever they’d like. So people are very bold and people have said stuff like, “you know, you were enslaved before, that wasn’t that long ago, we can do it again.” Could you not do stuff like that?

[00:46:35]  Dr. Taylor Brana: Oh, gosh. 

[00:46:38] Dr. Renee: What if somebody’s child saw that, you know, and you’re posting this on the internet. You know, just little things like that. It’s like, Oh my God, if you’re going to be that way – cause I do understand racists are going to be racist, doesn’t matter how many times we have a conversation – do that in your house. Kitchen table talk. Don’t post it online where everyone can see, because children can read. My little cousin is four and he reads perfectly fine. And if he saw that he would read that even now. And then he would ask his mom, what are they talking about?

[00:47:09] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. Yeah, it’s, you know, all this is very tricky, but you know, like we’re saying, this is bringing a very important topic to light and it’s a conversation we’re all gonna keep having.

[00:47:21] Dr. Renee, I’ve had you on. It’s been super interesting. It’s been really fun. I’ve learned, you know, your career, I’ve learned your process. I’ve learned about your creativity. We’ve talked about black lives mattering, and it’s always mattered, it still matters now, we’re going to continue to make it matter. I’m going to leave this open to you. We’ve got a moment here for you to, is there anything you feel like we didn’t talk about that, I didn’t ask you. You can do a little promo to your work. Is there anything you wanted to let people 

[00:47:52] Dr. Renee: know about? 

[00:47:53] You can follow me everywhere to Ask Dr. Renee. So, I’m on YouTube, Pinterest, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. And, I work with a lot of great brands and so you can find all of that stuff on my website, my favorite brand actually Thinx Period Panties. I work with them. You get $10 off with my link: http://shethinx.com/renee. And, Thinx came out with a statement and they came out with a Instagram post – they were the first ones I saw. As soon as this happened, they had a text number, text Floyd to that number. And you could sign the Color of Change petition, police brutality, I believe it was. But then they sent a letter to their entire email list, which has all of their customers. And then they sent a letter to us that worked with them, but they handled it so well and so quickly. And I think all companies need to be like Thinx, they need to be like Ben and Jerry’s, they need to look at these people who are doing it right and model that, because if you’re silent, it’s just, it’s not good for your business. I’m telling you if you don’t – Look, you might be the most racist human being as a CEO, but if you actually want to make money and make payroll, you probably want to make certain that you hire somebody black preferably, or a diversity inclusion firm, and make sure that you get your statement correct so that you say something. Cause when you say nothing that makes you very complicit and you do not want to be put in that category. 

[00:49:22] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time. We’re going to have a lot of your links in the show notes. I’m super excited again to have you. I would love to have you on again. We’ll talk some more soon. You have a great personality of great energy. I love what you’re doing and I appreciate your time. 

[00:49:39] Dr. Renee: No problem. Thank you. 

[00:49:41] Dr. Taylor Brana: And that’s the episode for today. I want to thank you so much for listening to the Happy Doc Podcast. Again, this is a podcast that is going to inspire you as a physician, as a health professional, as an individual to be fulfilled in your life. So please look out for the other episodes in the happy doc. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please leave a five star review on the podcasting application of your choice. You can also reach out to us by emailing the happy doc1@gmail.com. I’ll see you in the next episode.

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