Achieving Physician Freedom | Francis Yoo DO

Please note, this transcript has not yet been edited for clarity and may contain spelling mistakes.

Medical laboratories are always on the lookout for healthcare professionals who are willing to give their expert opinion on the latest medical breakthroughs. All Global Circle offers healthcare professionals the opportunity to shape the medical industry by participating in surveys that are relevant to their specialty. Receive $50 of signup bonuses, and get paid for participating in studies by giving your opinion. Sign up today, impact millions of lives, and go to www.allglobalcircle.com.

Welcome to The Happy Doc, the voice of fulfilled physicians. Sharing life stories from physicians, health professionals and entrepreneurs, so that you can live your happy life.

[00:00:49] Dr. Taylor Brana: Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the happy doc. I’m super excited to have Dr. Francis, How are you Dr. Yoo, how are you doing? How’s life?

[00:00:58] Dr. Francis Yoo: Life is fun. Life is definitely doing a lot of stuff and doing what I want and making sure I’m getting the most of it. Yeah. 

[00:01:07] Dr. Taylor Brana: That’s amazing. That’s amazing.

[00:01:08] So we’re gonna hop into a bunch of interesting things that you’ve done, in your physician career, but before we kind of get into that story, why did you choose medicine? 

[00:01:18] Dr. Francis Yoo: A lot of it was definitely influenced by my family. They were immigrant parents. They go this route. And I said, sure, I like science.

[00:01:27] I like helping people. It seems like a great way to learn what I applied, apply what I learned, and something that’s required for me to study a lot, learn a lot, but be able to translate it into. An actual practical outcome, and just act learning. So the studying part was great. So yeah, that’s the, the shorter, but yeah, 

[00:01:51] Dr. Taylor Brana: it’s basically just a natural progression of learning.

[00:01:53] It was something that you were interested in and then you continue to pursue that. and did you feel like, as you were going through the process, this was, this was the path for you? 

[00:02:03] Dr. Francis Yoo: So that’s an interesting question because there are multiple parts to that route, right? There’s the premed than the actual school and then the training and then after the training.

[00:02:15] Right. So school was fun. You know, it’s new. Everything’s great. Oh, another new rotation. I have to learn new things and then residency, you have to be a doctor now on the page and do things so that, that all part of it was, the newness of it. And I’m moving through that process. 

[00:02:38] Dr. Taylor Brana: So that part, that part worked for you going through the process and learning everything throughout the whole medical education route.

[00:02:45] Was there any specific part of school itself that you found particularly challenging or, or difficult during your process? 

[00:02:53] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah, I realized in hindsight I had terrible sleep to begin with starting from when I probably was. 15 or 16 and it just made my overall wellness a little bit worse, just because of a lot of studies, you have to do a lot of things you have to go to, especially the first year and people say, Oh, you study the amount of lectures you got, which meant how many hours of sleep.

[00:03:19] So it was definitely top in terms of the attention needed to that. So this is less attention to. Pretty much anything else? Luckily, I was living at home with my parents. I didn’t have to do all their home stuff. I know a lot of other doctors have to do it. 

[00:03:37] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. I mean, look, that, that support’s huge. Right.

[00:03:40] And I can tell you when you’re, when you have to balance so many things at one time, Especially with medical school. And as you know, the fire hydrant, like a amount of information that’s coming at you, that, that definitely sounds like a, like a benefit. Yeah. And then, so you progressed forward and you went into family medicine, and I’m also seeing in your background that you have taken on so many different things like fellowships and additional training.

[00:04:05] I think that’s amazing. But I also understand that that’s part of your path where you, at some point, it kind of sounds like you realized maybe you don’t need to take on so much. So can you kind of paint the picture of what made you pursue all the different fellowships you pursued? 

[00:04:21] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:22] Yeah. So it kind of goes back to when I was applying for residencies, right. I was the. I like all the rotations, but then I love all of them, right? Yeah. This was fun. This was fun. I don’t see myself doing this for 10, 20, 30, 40 years. So I chose the, maybe the, the least committal residency, which was family medicine, which is you kind of get everything.

[00:04:48] but you get to work with people and they, and the whole family. And then my residency was a little bit different because there was a second training pathway built in. So I ended up being certified and yeah, family medicine and the osteopathic manipulative medicine. And then, through a residency. And after I said, Hey, you know what?

[00:05:10] I’m kind of interested in learning different things. I don’t know if I was bored or. or I just thought, I didn’t know enough. It’s probably a little bit of both. So I got my. I think 300 hours of medical accuracy training got certified in New York state. I did some lifestyle medicine, functional medicine, and training.

[00:05:31] And I also grandfathered because I had so much CME into integrative medicine, specialty and pain medicine, extra qualification. And I would say part of it was maybe I just felt unprepared to be real. Doctor as an attending. but part of it was just, I just liked the learning.

[00:05:54] but I let her realize that part of the learning was too much of a defense to actually go out and say, Hey, I’m going to be the doctor now that I’ve trained. I don’t know how many years to go. 

[00:06:09] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. I see that a lot, especially with business building and entrepreneurs. There’s definitely that sort of imposter syndrome and.

[00:06:18] like, like you said, sort of there’s that stint learning or getting the next certificate or the next thing instead of yeah, just doing the thing. and I definitely have seen that before, which I think is important and it’s great that you may recognize that on your own you’re on a path. but, but still with that being said, the training’s really effective now I’m curious.

[00:06:44] Do you find that the integrative medicine and the acupuncture and the OMT, are you still using those holistic practices as a physician? 

[00:06:55] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah. So I kind of have to talk about part of my other part of the story to do that. I was. After residency, I worked as an attending and I was doing clinical work.

[00:07:10] I was also doing work with students and residents, precepting them in the hospital, outside of the hospital, giving lectures. And I eventually got the hat of being a program. Third well associate program director. Director and then a program director. And then along the way, I became vice chair of the family medicine department of a QA projects.

[00:07:27] Cause I also had my lean six Sigma belt and it was basically a hat, I dunno, four or five, six hats. And. The part of it I realized was the worst for me was the stuff I was doing and the clinical work that I never signed up for. I know that comes up a lot on your, on your, on your show a lot. And a lot of it was.

[00:07:53] A lot of the nonmedical parts of the work, right. The paperwork, Hey, I signed in fax this over five times. Why am I getting a six time? I mean, yeah, I’m sure you’ve heard it before. And, and people have said it before, and then what happened was, I said, what about medicine? Do I like it? And I said, Hey, I like problem solving.

[00:08:18] Using everything I learned to help people write what I wrote in my personal statement to begin with. And the OMT, the acupuncture integrated medicine was really the way for me to position myself, someone who I want to sit with you and think about what’s going on. What is someone else? Not maybe pay attention to and do something else that someone else isn’t.

[00:08:40] So I can put in my, and hopefully that will, help the person in front of me. And I definitely had, I said, yeah, what you told me three months ago, I’ve had all of these other specialists. That’s what they told me after tests afterwards and, and made me feel great that I was able to. Use what I learned and help out this patient.

[00:09:05] So the long, the short version is yes, but actually do more of that now than the, than the, paperwork, primary care side of things. 

[00:09:15] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s one of the things that we’re gonna probably get to, in a little bit, in terms of, when you start to build your own practice, you can start to remove those pieces that are less enjoyable in the work, right?

[00:09:29] The nonclinical side. maybe parts of a company or the healthcare system that aren’t streamlined things that like you said you didn’t sign up for. And absolutely, it’s just, it’s just not an enjoyable thing. And on the OMT side, cause I’m also a DOE you know, one of the great things that sometimes we’ll work with patients is something like headaches, right?

[00:09:50] Like some headache you have the skills and I have the skills to know that maybe the tension headache could be resolved. With a couple of techniques, right? Like, so the like direct inhibition of the tree apps or whatever, whatever different techniques are out there. I’ve even with like, I’ll give you an example of my mom, like my mom, I had a crazy headache.

[00:10:09] I don’t see her often. And I did a couple of OMT techniques and her headache went away when the doctor, another doctor was trying to give her Advil or what have you. Right. So it’s just, I’m very happy to speak to someone else who has these skills too, because you know, there’s some risks maybe. And I’m curious have you found like, maybe there were those results with things like acupuncture or OMT and someone was.

[00:10:32] Having some stubborn symptoms and you just were able to get it out with some of your holistic treatments. 

[00:10:37] Dr. Francis Yoo: Okay. Oh yeah. That’s, that’s definitely the most, enriching parts where they say, Hey, this was going on for so long. You’re the only one that has given me relief. What are temporary or permanent?

[00:10:49] And I definitely with both the acupuncture and, and the OMT, although nowadays I. You just both, whatever. It really is the most effective and efficient way. And yeah, like that other patient that just said, I just did a thorough structural exam. I said, Hey, XYZ did a technique. And later he wants to see all the specialists cause he had multiple myeloma and other things, obviously it’s a, it was a little bit complicated, but he came back and said, you know what?

[00:11:19] Anyway, Just telling me what you told me three, four months ago, and you were helping me already. Yeah. 

[00:11:24] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. And, and, and right. And even like supportive care for people who have more severe diseases and those types of things, you can do a lot with that. So I, I, again, I just, I think it’s great to have these different, potential skills in your toolbox to be able to pull them out.

[00:11:40] I want to kind of move the conversation a little bit towards. Achieving physician freedom, which you wrote a whole book about this concept around achieving freedom in your life as a physician. Right. And, and so before I kind of tap into that, the freedom side implies that there’s a part of.

[00:12:03] This process where you feel enslaved, right. And you feel stuck. can you, can you tell me a little bit about what was making you feel like you wanted to achieve your own freedom? 

[00:12:14] Dr. Francis Yoo: So going back to my story about my wearing multiple hats, right. Again, I was doing clinical medicine, precepting students, residents vice-chair to family medicine departments.

[00:12:26] I was kind of in charge of some QA projects and I was also starting new clinics. And then I thought, okay. Am I going to be the CIO of a gigantic hospital system. And do I want to be the master QA person? Not really. Do I want to be in this kind of clinical practice for 20, 30, 40 years? Not really. I realized I was doing, I mean, I’m not saying those experiences were bad, but I realized if I kept going on that route.

[00:13:04] I’ll be pacing, basically living a life or lives that really other people want for me, it really benefited them more than it would have benefited me. And I know physicians are very good at making sure other people are okay and over it themselves. And I thought, what I am enslaved by is really what everyone else.

[00:13:29] Expects of me, their vision of what I should be like, right. This picture of the doctor. And that is something school A does a lot, right. School. It’s. Let’s say an elementary school. This person is a, and this person’s a it’s it’s. If you look at some, from a distant situation, it looks the same, the same thing as going to medical school, or this person got whatever grade this person got at whatever grade.

[00:13:56] Okay. They must be. Similarly passable. And when you get a board certification, it’s great. That means you’re certified. You pass all these examinations or this training, but another way to look at it is let’s say, what does a family medicine doctor? And then I died or I was fired. How did they find a replacement?

[00:14:18] Oh, okay. Family and medicine board certified. It’s just, it’s just an easy way to say this is the bare minimum that I want you to be replaceable with. And it might be a little bit more of an incentive. It’s a perspective that I think it’s worth looking at. And I felt like that you’re not replaceable.

[00:14:35] What impact am I really making? My interests are things that I want to do, what I want to spend my attention on to help people. I’m not doing enough of that. And I realized I wasn’t trapped, but I was also trapped by my own perspective of what was possible in life. For me. 

[00:14:56] Dr. Taylor Brana: I mean, what you just said is so powerful.

[00:14:58] And I really want to highlight that for a second, because I think what you just touched on is what a lot of people feel. A lot of people feel trapped by the expectations of their parents, of their relationships, even their own ideas of what they feel like they’re expected to do, as opposed to what do I actually want to do in life?

[00:15:22] What do I actually enjoy? What are the things that give me energy, what are areas of life that I want to pursue? And I think the kind of idea of the slave men, it’s almost like a mental enslavement of the expectations that a medical culture and the process of professionalism and going into professional school does to you.

[00:15:45] Right. But, and I know this personally and what you said really spoke to me because I also had to have my own. Personal breakout period when I started podcasting. Right. And when I started to build out something. Right. And so I’m curious, when did that switch for you where you’re like, I’m done, I need to do me.

[00:16:06] I need to do something for myself. What was that moment or where, where did that kind of switch for you? 

[00:16:11] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah, I would say there were multiple pieces, right. That we’re building up, building up then. I would say it was at the end of 2019. That’s when I was working full time, full time plus, right. Cause I was.

[00:16:26] I’ve had these other hats that I mentioned twice, plus I will start new clinics in the evening and I was starting my own private practice on Friday. So I smashed all that work from Monday to Thursday. And yes, it’s in a way cause sales self-imposed, but then it accelerated. My awareness of, Oh, wait, this is a, this is not good.

[00:16:49] If this keeps going, not only am I not going to where I want to go, I’m going farther away from really what it is. I went to medicine for. And there were years of work at that internally studying self awareness and a topology G and all these things. And they finally added up and said, I don’t know if it was a moment or a process, but I said, I think November, 2019 by X date, which is July 20, 20, I’m no longer going to be working for corporate clinical medicine.

[00:17:24] I’m not going to have everything figured out, but it is time. 

[00:17:28] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think that’s, again, just like you said, it kind of builds up over time. You were doing your own personal reflection and studies and we all have to hit that point. And I think it’s really powerful. Like you said, you, you decided on a date and you said I’ve had enough of this.

[00:17:46] I think so many times, unfortunately. we as physicians, there’s like a personality type. We oblige we’re givers. We, we both are our issue. I think as givers is the defense of protecting ourselves and giving ourselves space. And what’s good for us. And, and I think it’s just a, it’s such an important part of your journey to say, you know what, like, that’s it, I’m creating this wall.

[00:18:12] I’m done. And I’m ready to build out my practice. I’m ready to build out my thing. So now let’s, let’s dig in a little bit further. You wrote a book about this, right? Achieving physician freedom. And again, I love the title. I think it’s great. What does it take to achieve freedom as a physician? What do you think?

[00:18:32] What, what are your thoughts on that? 

[00:18:33] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah, so a lot of my, I would say if I’m really listening to this book, I at least read, listened to this book multiple times, the Polian Hill, and it’s not his more well known, right. Think and grow rich. It’s the outwitting, the devil. And in it, he talks about having a definitive purpose and plan.

[00:18:53] And as doctors, we are not taught how to have that for our lives. It’s how to do a history, do an exam, the assessment and plan, which, which is what you need for your job. But it’s not taught to the soul, searching in a work and being aware of what we are. What’s going on too. Get what’s right. What’s individually authentically meaningful and impactful for us.

[00:19:22] And like you said, it’s in a way that was, I know that sounds really terrible, but in a way, cause you have to inculcate this physician persona. And unfortunately right now it’s not paired with some sort of individual growth because if you have both, that’d be great. But you know, we know. So what the book.

[00:19:41] Generally says that you need to actually think about it and that if you just let things happen or decide to let other people’s choices basically lead your life. And so the first thing I write in the book, right, the first step is to realize that you, I mean, I mean, yes, you, but we’re all going to die.

[00:20:06] Right. And I have people do this exercise. Write out your own eulogy obituaries the way your life is going right now. And then write another one in which you write your ideal life. If those sorts of things are the same, that’s awesome. But I mean, then I don’t think they are the happiest stock already. So, and then I say it helps them wake them up.

[00:20:32] I’ll wait, there’s actually this difference. And I was, I didn’t want to see it because, that cognitive dissonance is so uncomfortable and, who else is too is responsible, but, but you, right. So it’s really. It’s me, it’s my life. And if I don’t choose to do what’s better for me and the people around me, someone else’s decision will become mine.

[00:20:58] And, and then what? 

[00:21:01] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah, I like that exercise a lot. So like, I’m going to get really clear on this. So I’m right now, if I want to do the exercise, I would write my eulogy as if. Whatever pathway I’m taking, I’m writing it now versus a different pathway where I succeeded or want for the things I wanted to in life.

[00:21:21] And then you compare those eulogies. Is that correct? 

[00:21:23] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yes, exactly. Having that hindsight, lets you see, let’s say I was wearing my hats in all my hats and I. Yeah, great. Oh, he wants the best Dip ever. He wants the best program director ever. He was the best quality improvement person. Never. I mean, yeah, those are great, but it’s not really what I’m about.

[00:21:46] And it might make a lot of other people happy, which is great, but why not make yourself. And people are happy that it’s possible. Right? It’s that just need to know that it’s, it’s not a win lose, right? We can all win. If you are really doing what you love and helping people with that. 

[00:22:04] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah. I, I love what you said. I, I called it something else.

[00:22:07] Mentally. I’ve come up with my own framework around this. I’ve called it stacking in my head. The way I look at it is you want to stack what you find authentic, particularly true for your life and what makes you happy and what makes you joyous and all those things. What gives you energy and makes sure that you take care of yourself?

[00:22:27] Not necessarily first, but at least carve or shift. Into a position where now what you’re doing is providing you energy. Then as you’re happier and more fulfilled, you give from that full cup. Right. And then you’re able to give from a place of energy as opposed to a space of lack, burnout, exhaustion, and all of those things.

[00:22:53] Right. So have the eulogy exercise. I really like it, have you found any other? Sort of analogies or exercises or what, what conversations do you have with other individuals around starting to cultivate that inner fulfilling? 

[00:23:11] Dr. Francis Yoo: The overarching theme is that it’s hard because it’s so uncomfortable. It’s realizing.

[00:23:17] Oh, woops, that there’s something that’s not right. And I, I think that needs to be, be different. And that’s the, the, what I said before about being board certified as a physician. And the other is it shows your credential, this person did all this work. They’re great. But it also just, it also just means this person had the same qualifications as this same other person.

[00:23:49] And each of us are not replaceable. Right. But a cool system. And the residency training to some extent is to make sure you’re all up. Just enough to make sure you’re able to do the same things, but in a way that makes you replace supply, but we’re not. So again, there’s that dissonance between, Hey, I am. One of a kind, I am the first me ever.

[00:24:16] And am I going to not be me? definitely the, the dying approach helps cause I come from an existential philosophy background and that’s what I studied in undergrad. Right. And, well, this is a little bit more, more niche, but I mentioned it. So Frederick knee chair, right? He is a, he’s pretty well known.

[00:24:40] It’s hard to not know who doesn’t know 

[00:24:41] Dr. Taylor Brana: German philosopher. Yeah, 

[00:24:43] Dr. Francis Yoo: exactly. And one of his concepts is a, is the eternal recurrence. It sounds fancy, but all it means is to imagine whatever you’re doing right now. And then you die time ends, and then time starts over. So mental exercise, that means when it comes to this moment again.

[00:25:08] You’re going to do the exact same thing with the exact same outcome. And that’s the mental exercise. Can you imagine yourself making the same sort of action with the same sort of results over and over and over and over again? It’s just, unless you realize. Oh, man. Maybe, I shouldn’t think again about what I’m doing right now.

[00:25:31] Wow. So that’s a kind of his existentialism in a, in a nutshell, it’s really what matters to you. Are you doing something that matters to you or, or not, or even something that’s the opposite of what matters to you? Which, which is, I would say a big component of the burnout, which anyways talks about, 

[00:25:51] Dr. Taylor Brana: Well, it kind of reminds me, right?

[00:25:52] Like we’re all kind of I hate to say it like this, but there’s definitely like, life is, there is a game, like quality to life. And is this the game you, you want to keep playing? Like, do you want to keep running this game or do you realize maybe I want to step out of this maze and do something else.

[00:26:11] Right. And I think often it’s an analogy, but oftentimes there’s a point where you should have said enough and your, whatever you want to call it, your soul, your spirit, your inner self. Knows that you’ve had enough, it’s crying. You’re exhausted from waking up. You’re depressed. You’re not looking forward to waking up in the morning.

[00:26:35] You’re not looking forward to your work. You’re getting burnt out maybe, or showing symptoms of getting angry, irritable, whatever. So your show, you know it, and yet you still haven’t taken that next step to look at your life to reflect and say, wait, maybe I need to be. Changing something here and change is obviously very hard, but how long are you going to keep playing the same game?

[00:27:00] And I love, I love that idea with Nietzsche of the recurring pattern here, because who knows, who knows what happens when we die longer discussion, we could on a whole, have an existential conversation. I love this, by the way, I love talking about this stuff. so, you’re in, you’re in, you’re you’re, you’re in the right crowd here, but with all of that being said, At the end of the day.

[00:27:22] it, I wouldn’t say just changed because the conversation we’re having is not simple changes. What we’re. Well, we’re almost talking about philosophical or internal change. And these types of changes can be very difficult, right? So, the change that goes from being a teenager to an adult or the chain, it’s a metamorphosis in a way in a transformation of your character.

[00:27:48] And that change, the change we’re talking about is very hard. It’s not just a. These are very difficult decisions that you make and meet at different times. Like for example the decision with you to transition from regular, what we’d say normal clinical care to a direct primary care practice, right?

[00:28:09] That is a big shift. I’m curious how that change has altered your perspective on practice and how that’s either made you more fulfilled. Like, what was that change like for you? 

[00:28:22] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah. So I went into medicine thinking, Oh, I’m just going to do the doctor stuff and I’ll get paid.

[00:28:28] And that’s the end of the day. That’s that’s, that’d be great. but I realized there are so many people being between me and the patient and. It’s not like I wanted to spend all this time. Oh, I have to learn business entities and find a malpractice carrier. And, but I did it to get to where I wanted to get to.

[00:28:56] And it’s it. So in the other part of the book, I guess going back to the book is once you, once I, or anyone decides, this is kind of where I want to go. All you need to know is finding out what the next step is. Right. If I want to find out how to start a private practice, I just have to Google it, ask someone, look it up.

[00:29:21] It doesn’t, you don’t have to say, 

[00:29:23] Dr. Taylor Brana: is it really that easy? 

[00:29:25] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yes or no? Because every time you do the next step, you just define it. One of the next steps is if you look. 10,000 steps ahead. But then if you, all, all you have is today and right now is, Hey, what can I do today to get me closer to that vision, dream goal, whatever, whatever it may be.

[00:29:44] And for me, it was, I want this kind of practice. It’s not going to happen overnight or a year, or maybe even three, five years. But all I knew was I needed to. I came up with a name for my practice. Right? It’s something that’s, it’s the simple things to what what’s, what’s hard, but I always for positions, I get the position, equivalent, right?

[00:30:10] When I was first on the night float, the nurse called. Oh, this person’s Haldol order or Tylenol order is what am I missing? Or it needs to be renewed. And I will look up what was the dose for Tylenol after you write the dose with Tylenol, I don’t know, five, 10 times that’s. Oh, okay. And then you move on to.

[00:30:29] A little bit more complicated thing that you can move through. So it’s, it’s, we’ve all done it, but we just make things more complicated. because I mean, people can, it’s just one of the gifts we have. Right. 

[00:30:43] Dr. Taylor Brana: It’s scary. I mean, the change you’re talking about and it’s, I kind of like the change I went through with starting the podcast, which is like, I’m going to a different level.

[00:30:53] I’m going to choose to do something that most people don’t do. Right. And I’m extending my head out to this other thing. It’s very anti the process that we went through, the whole process we went through has been following the book, book, work, doing all the. You know, doing, doing everything right. Don’t have any marks on your record.

[00:31:17] Don’t be a delinquent constantly get good grades. And now all of a sudden you’re, you’re, you’re risking that next step of maybe going into that direct primary care practice or whatever. So I do think it’s, I don’t think we’ve ever exposed ourselves in that way. So if you’ve never done that, it can be, it can be really challenging.

[00:31:37] Did you, did you have a mentor or anyone that you’ve been following to help you with this? 

[00:31:41] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah, I definitely had multiple non-business entrepreneurial mentors. You know, my program director, they were all great help, but let’s, it was really the beginning of 2020 when I decided, Hey, I gotta change something.

[00:31:57] I started looking for actual people to call. I’m great at signing up for online courses and. Finishing a lot, but not all of them. And, and I signed up for a lot of, Mike Woo-Ming’s BootstrapMD, and learned a lot of those things. And I also signed up for the Tony Robbins Dean Graziosi program. I forgot what it’s called and Rummy

[00:32:24] Dr. Taylor Brana: KBB one 

[00:32:25] Dr. Francis Yoo: KBB. And roommate’s that these, the, I will teach you to be rich guys. those got zero to launch, but he 

[00:32:32] Dr. Taylor Brana: changed his book is great. Yeah, it’s a very good financial book. 

[00:32:36] Dr. Francis Yoo: And then I realized. Yeah, I can kind of do this all on my own. It will just take me a long time. Cause I was just afraid of asking for help.

[00:32:45] And then, actually one of your recent guests, Dr. Christopher Loo, was doing an interview with Dr. Michael Ming, almost kinda like this. And I said, Oh, what is your blah, blah, blah. Oh, I do this, this, this, I said, huh? Let me look him up. He says, Oh, I have a coaching call. We’re available. I called him up.

[00:33:06] And then it was not something I ever did or found comfortable, but I said to myself, what’s going to happen if I don’t, I’m just not going to move ahead. And so I called him and then I learned from him. And then at that out to reach out to more people, also mentored by Dr. Michael Ming and. Ask a lot of people online, different Facebook groups.

[00:33:32] I just asked them what, what blah, blah, blah, do you use? Or which one of these do you use? And even now I have another coach that kind of is leading me through, the business world. yeah. So definitely. Networking, asking, right? Yeah. As a student. Yeah. As an intern, we used to, well, hopefully we are asking things, but as an attending, even if you’ve never done business stuff, you’re still, you’re almost like a business student.

[00:34:03] Again, they have to be a business intern. So you need your business senior resonance, then your business attended. So that’s kind of how I look at it. 

[00:34:12] Dr. Taylor Brana: There’s definitely an entire world of information, but the one thing I wanted to point out with what you said, which I think was great. It sounds like you were ready suddenly.

[00:34:22] Mentally you’d had enough. There was enough percolating in here where you’re like, I’m done and it sounded like you were ready. Like the one thing I want to highlight for people listening is if you’re listening to this right now and you feel like I’m done, I’ve had enough of this lifestyle, I’m ready for this change.

[00:34:44] I want to really point out that when you’re actually ready. The information is here. You literally could message me. You can message Dr. Francis, you, you can message this network. None of us are trying to hide, hide in a corner. We’re all people that like to help people. You know, there’s not, there’s nothing here that a lot of people, I feel like create this barrier in their head that it’s difficult to start something new, to build a business, to do whatever, but you just said it, you decided you listened to the interview.

[00:35:17] You just looked a couple steps further. You saw that Dr. Christopher Loo had liked his course, or how coaching you reached out to. I’m sure you reached out to a lot of other people too. But you through the sort of weaving process, right? You’re here, you’re on this episode, you’ve built out your DPC practice.

[00:35:37] You know, you’re doing this process, you’ve written two books. I saw the COVID book that you wrote as well. You’re doing the process. Right. And so again, I like to give a little clap because I think you’ve, you’ve built out your way and that allows other people to build out their way. So, I think that’s great.

[00:35:55] What do you, what do you, what do you think about that? 

[00:35:57] Dr. Francis Yoo: I have one related and one not related to comment, the unrelated comment first, just a shorter. One of the reasons I reached out to Christopher Lou was our names. Last names are very similar. You and Mike Woo-Ming. You, we haven’t even the last time I spoke with Michael May, I said, he said, Hey, maybe we should do something together because I said, Hey, I was thinking the exact same thing anyway, so.

[00:36:26] Yeah. So back to your comment, I, a hundred percent agree. See, the thing that I want people to know is that though. Yeah, it is percolating. If you, if where you are, if your next step is literally do what I’m doing now, that is your next step. Doesn’t mean, Oh, you need to go network right now and do this right now.

[00:36:53] That may come or maybe your current job is what’s fulfilling to you. Right. And that can tell someone, Oh, leave that job or go for a nonclinical career or fire. So you can retire early. What works for you is what works for you. If you say I’m going to save this amount of money by working this amount of hours on my current job.

[00:37:17] Great. That’s your next step. And, but the key point is that there is this self appointed conscious decision. Oh yeah, this is what I’m going to do next. And I think that’s the next point that I can make is you have a choice, right? And it’s when we realize we have a choice. That you can stop and say, Oh wait, it’s Whoa.

[00:37:45] It’s almost like a matrix, right? He can’t go, Oh wait, I can, I can actually see what’s going on and to myself. And that’s really ultimately, I would say the most important thing. That’s. The important thing is being aware of where you are, who you are and what’s going on, and then realizing your choice. You can choose.

[00:38:08] I mean, a lot of choices may be bad, but you can still choose, or you can decide. You know what I mean, doing this thing that no one thought even it was a choice and, but I’m going to still be responsible because it’s going to change my life to whatever it may be, you know? Yeah. So that’s kind of another point is we tend to hold ourselves in thinking, Oh, we only have this choice, this choice, this choice, one of my favorites.

[00:38:34] And I’m kind of on a roll here, but one of my favorite, one of my favorite stories is, Dr. Netter, right? I don’t know about now, but when I was a medical student, everybody, and you will talk to 

[00:38:47] Dr. Taylor Brana: friends, they’re still using that as an alchemy. 

[00:38:51] Dr. Francis Yoo: So if you look at this biography, I mean, I look at that week, we’ll get PBL, but I try to find other sources, but essentially he liked art.

[00:38:58] Before medicine, he said, Oh, and then he kind of went into medicine just because of different circumstances, influences. And then he still laid aside. I kind of still wanted to draw stuff. So he started drawing stuff and people like this art. And then, someone wanted to buy his set of drawings.

[00:39:19] I’m going to make up the number. Cause I don’t remember. Oh, I’ll buy, he thought. They weren’t going to buy the entire set of, let’s say five drawings, but 500. He was paid $500 for each drawing. I mean said, okay, let me, I love drawing. I love it. I love it. And I don’t know if you love the anatomy, but I’m going to do this.

[00:39:40] It’s making me money and I’m happy doing it. Right. And I love how he was able to use his interests and his medical background. Right. He leveraged both and I hope, I hope he was happy. Because he’s drawn plenty of medical art and influenced how many positions, right. It’s who doesn’t know that name. Maybe one day we’ll all go to it.

[00:40:03] Right. 

[00:40:03] Dr. Taylor Brana: His drawings are beautiful. I mean, and, and, and you really do get to understand the anatomy through his, what was his authentic skill. 

[00:40:12] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah. And then he decided, Why do something that I get paid for and I love, and I get to use my medical degree versus practicing in a way that I don’t want to. So I really like this story because it’s so simple and everybody knows him.

[00:40:28] So yeah. Well, 

[00:40:29] Dr. Taylor Brana: it’s, it’s a, it’s a very powerful example. And, and it kind of points back to what you were alluding to a little bit earlier, which is when we have these big D choices or decisions or things that we can make, you have to start to have, like, you’re talking with the matrix. You have to develop your awareness.

[00:40:46] Yeah. So at some point with Netter, I would imagine he’d had a switch where he had an awareness. He was like, wait a second. Yeah, I’m pretty good at this thing. Wait a second, people are buying this thing. Maybe I can use what I know and make a lot more of this. And now we all know a Netter’s anatomy book.

[00:41:06] So I think that’s just a really powerful thing. And look, he had a choice. You didn’t have to do it. Yeah. He could’ve, he could’ve stopped to get a continued medical school and medical training and all that stuff and never drank another more had his own personal drawings and whatever, but so I think it’s, it’s it’s a, it’s a good illustration of, of that piece of.

[00:41:26] Letting it come to you when it comes and taking advantage of it. When it arrives, when it arrives. 

[00:41:32] Dr. Francis Yoo: One of the things I would add is that, and now see how many people are influenced and in your shoes. Oh, your listener, viewer. What if by not pursuing your best authentic self, you’re actually preventing others from benefiting from what you can offer.

[00:41:51] So that’s, that’s another lesson from his story. 

[00:41:54] Dr. Taylor Brana: Yeah, that’s a, I mean, now we’re talking about an existential crisis here. If we don’t, if we don’t fulfill our ultimate, our ultimate being right. It’s a great question. Look, I love, I love philosophical conversation. I could do this all day for the, for the sake of time, doctor you I’ve asked you a lot of questions.

[00:42:12] Was there anything during this conversation, was there anything that you wanted to make sure you imparted to the listeners? 

[00:42:19] Dr. Francis Yoo: Yeah. So, like I said before, I want to reiterate that physicians are taught how to be physicians, but are not taught how to be a lot of the solutions to wellness. Burnout is to do this program.

[00:42:40] Or leave your situation, maybe that’s helpful or, or change the system. Okay. That’s great. What I want to emphasize is as an individual, you are, you. And no one else. And the solution for you is you being your best self stuff and all these solutions and options there. but really it’s, it’s there for you, right?

[00:43:12] You’re not there to chase down all these options. It’s too. Okay. I’m getting so existential again, but yeah. So learn and that’s hard because we weren’t taught how to, bots. There are resources for that too. And. Yeah. So that’s the main thing I wanted to reiterate. 

[00:43:34] Dr. Taylor Brana: No, it’s great. I mean, look, I’m a hundred percent with you.

[00:43:36] I learn, learn myself, understand myself, right? And so you can then use your knowing to then take advantage of life in the way you choose, as opposed to the system, the impressions of others and all of these people coming at you trying to control your life. And I think ultimately that’s what we’re all looking for is that autonomy and that control.

[00:43:57] So I think. You know, you bring up a fantastic point, doctor you, how do people find out about you? Where can they reach you? 

[00:44:05] Dr. Francis Yoo: So, on social media, everything is Dr. Francis Yoo. My Facebook is my main living ground and that’s where I messaged you. And this is where I am. either my profile page, you can friend me my.

[00:44:26] Paige Dr. Francis you, my Facebook group, physician freedom, living your authentic position in life. You can email me Dr. Francis gmail.com. and the website that’s actually being built right now will be off soon is drfrancisyoo.com 

[00:44:44] Dr. Taylor Brana: Amazing. So we’ll have all of those links in our show notes.

[00:44:47] Dr. Yoo, thank you so much for your time. I’m looking forward to talking to you again and everyone. Thank you so much for watching and listening to the happy doc podcast. Take care.

And that’s the episode for today. I want to thank you so much for listening to the Happy Doc Podcast. Again, this is a podcast that is going to inspire you as a physician, as a health professional, as an individual to be fulfilled in your life, so please look out for the other episodes in The Happy Doc. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please leave a five star review on the podcasting application of your choice. You can also reach out to us by emailing the happydoc1@gmail.com. I’ll see you on the next episode.